Sogna Digital Museum Forum
Non-Sogna/VIPER Discussion => Japanese Pop Culture => Topic started by: HMD on September 11, 2006, 02:30:41 pm
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This is for discussion of otaku. I personally detest them. There's a fine line between playing video games and watching anime, and posting stupid shit on a message board at Hyperguy's expense (literally; he pays money so you can act stupid).
What are your views on otaku culture, or lack thereof?
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I think that anyone who uses the word "Otaku" casually doesn't know what the word actually means.
Albert Einstein loved science, but Nikola Tesla actually forgot who he was when he was engrossed in his work. An "Otaku" would be the fanboy equivalent of Tesla. Or a Red Sox fan. True Otaku will self-destruct on their own. The rest aren't worth directing even the tiniest measure of impotent rage towards. I have real concerns that leave me no room for such a wasteful indulgence.
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Let's deport them. They're on the wrong side of the Pacific.
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Khris you said it wrong. I thought I made it clear that it will always be the wrong side of the Pacific.
Jesus.
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Now that I have finished my Plutarch, I can now enact a more complete summation of my feelings on this issue.
The anime fandom is not deserving of any more scorn than sports, nor wrestling, or any other fandom that inspires fierce devotion in its followers. They have not attempted any harm to me, including but not limited to the following.
-They have not attempted physical injury upon me, my fellows, my family, nor the porperty of all listed.
-They have not spread lies, nor sullied my honor in any other way.
-They have not pushed upon me intoxicants, any manner of smokable leaf, halluciogenic reagents or pills, opiates, nor any powder or stone created from the coca plant.
-They have not pushed upon me any form of religious conversion.
-They have borne not other malice against me, lasting or otherwise.
It is perhaps noteworthy that most of the other denominations of society have attempted one or more of such actions against me previously. To give in to a paleolithic proto-emotion would show an unforgivable weakness of character on my part. My mind, thankfully, is ruled by reason.
A single point, however, may be conceded: Giving in entirely to the stereotypes and preconceptions of one's culture or subculture does one no boon. In my interactions with the greater fandom, I have indeed met many charming ladies. While not exactly "fantasy girls", I believe I was better off knowing them and enjoying their company. If you can't look past something as trivial as yaoi, there is really little more to say.
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...I was under the impression that the stuff on the other thread was sarcasm, TBH.
As R-9 said, otaku are mostly harmless, so there's no real issue for me.
The real problem is that for more or less anybody who isn't part of the gaming or anime communities/cultures will view anybody who plays games/watches anime at all as "otaku" whether they choose to use or even know of the word or not.
While attitudes to gaming at least are improving, certainly within my own age group (ref: all that game legislation of late) it can still be problematic- I have a T-shirt with a generic anime-style character on it, which lead to a few awkward conversations with some friends-of-a-friend when i wore it to a house party said friend was holding, which can make it difficult to make friends outside of games-and-anime groups, which has the knock on effect of recieving few influences outside of the two.
It's not like they're the only things that suffer this (I have also been accused of being a pill-pusher and a flaming homosexual for liking electronic/dance music, and there's always British football hooliganism), but they do get it a lot more than others.
I'm sure I've got a greater point to make, but I've never been any good at this 'writing' lark.
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...I was under the impression that the stuff on the other thread was sarcasm, TBH.
As R-9 said, otaku are mostly harmless, so there's no real issue for me.
The real problem is that for more or less anybody who isn't part of the gaming or anime communities/cultures will view anybody who plays games/watches anime at all as "otaku" whether they choose to use or even know of the word or not.
While attitudes to gaming at least are improving, certainly within my own age group (ref: all that game legislation of late) it can still be problematic- I have a T-shirt with a generic anime-style character on it, which lead to a few awkward conversations with some friends-of-a-friend when i wore it to a house party said friend was holding, which can make it difficult to make friends outside of games-and-anime groups, which has the knock on effect of recieving few influences outside of the two.
And, of course, it's a lot easier when your interests are already wildly popular- it's easy to meet sports fans when your local pub knows it can pull in some punters by sticking the football on. Doesn't work so well with anime.
It's not like they're the only things that suffer this (I have also been accused of being a pill-pusher and a flaming homosexual for liking electronic/dance music, and there's always British football hooliganism), but they do get it a lot more than others.
I'm sure I've got a greater point to make, but I've never been any good at this 'writing' lark.
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Exactly what I was going to say, R-9 and lumberjack.
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to me, an otaku is simply someone who loves anime, video games, or generally all things Japanese. they don't necessarily have to be 101%-OBSESSED with these things. in fact, i consider myself an otaku. if i'm correct, i believe the actual translation of "otaku" is "fan," as in "i'm a fan of Naruto," etc. if i am an otaku, then i am simply a fan of the above-mentioned things. nothing more, nothing less.
however, i DO believe that some otakus are more extreme than others. in such cases, i would just call those people "hardcore otakus" or simply a ____ nerd, where ____ is whatever series/game/fetish/etc. that person is into. i also believe there is a difference between terms such as "nerd" and "geek" as well; to me, "nerd" is a more extreme term, but i'm sure other people would disagree with my opinion.
otakus, extreme or not, are all people who love a certain thing, just the same as how an athletic person may love sports, or how an alcoholic loves booze. they can help or harm someone just like anyone else can, to varying degrees. but in the issue of how they can keep you from getting girls and what not, that's just a generalized characteristic of the otaku culture - a stereotype, if you will. and, as much as i hate to admit it, stereotypes ARE real... but people of a certain stereotype aren't necessarily confined to it. an otaku CAN hook up with a supermodel, whereas a muscly jock may also have an artistic side.
so, whether you enjoy watching anime on Adult Swim every once in a while, or you've memorized all the measurements of each girl on a Viper hentai game, you're an otaku in my eyes.
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You are so right, Tetsaru. I'm not speaking in a sarcastic tone either, since part of me is an otaku....
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The word otaku is an insult in Japan. If I called you a loser retard, I'd be accomplishing the same goal as just calling you otaku.
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.......
No wonder why this forum is falling apart. In my opinion, those who have nothing better to do in their lives than make fun of the otaku's are bigger loser retards than the victimized. Next time you want to start making fun of someone in a hurtful way, I suggest you keep those comments to yourself.
Or better yet, don't say them at all.
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Oh um. Wow. I wasn't really trying to insult anyone with that post, but if you want me to, I will.
The reason the forums are falling apart is because George Bush doesn't care about black people.
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My entire problem with anime fans/otaku is that the don't act like anime fans. A fan of something usually has enough restraint to not overwhelm people with what it is they're a fan of.
For instance, my dad's a major fan of football, but when mom's got company, he doesn't irritate them with the details of the last football game he saw. He knows they don't like it, or at least don't care one way about it, and doesn't bother them with it.
But these anime fuckers! They just won't shut up! I had this kid go on and on and ON about Naruto, even after I told him I really don't give a shit about the series. In the end, I had to throw him bodily out of the room I was in. He just didn't get the clue.
This is the problem with most people who don't like or don't care about anime. The people who do like and care about it just plain won't leave it alone and talk about something else. It's all they've got to live on, apparently, which is where all the derision starts.
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On a non-offensive note, do anime makers count as otaku themselves? Cause in real life, I intend on making an anime with all the knowledge I gained as an otaku....
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I all I can say is "Good Ruck Wit Dat."
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I also can't stand how anime fans will use random Japanese words or phrases in the middle of english sentences.
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What about Vice Versa? So far, in my opinion, the only anime fan allowed to say such things is Sodom from Street Fighter Alpha 3. He is the inspiration of all game fans. No really, He IS!! He says that in the game.
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I also can't stand how anime fans will use random Japanese words or phrases in the middle of english sentences.
I can't stand it when they use ENGRISH names in sentences.
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Until I meet a japanese person that speaks japanese to me with random english words in their speech, the japs can get away with it.
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Until I meet a japanese person that speaks japanese to me with random english words in their speech, the japs can get away with it.
You mean like how they have a well-noted tendency wear random English words on T-shirts? And how there's a sub vs. dub debate over there wehn concerning American cartoons?
Also, words mean things. One cannot debate something that has something that has extremely strong and absolute cultural connotations in its native language. For example, the Roman concept of indignitas did not mean you're mildly angry that the fishmonger overcharged you again. It's something that's exclusively referred to when one's very sensibility and basic principles as a Roman citizen are offended by a heinous act of depravity and/or excess by one's fellow countryman.
(There's also a very interesting story concerning Augustus Caesar that illustrates the meaning of indignitas quite clearly, but I don't have the time to relate it right now, and this isn't the thread for it, anyway.)
That being said, I am throroughly amazed at the profligacy of this thread. I see rants, I see an anecdote, I see a difference of opinion, but nothing concrete or material. I also see an attempt to speak for our host, who would have vocalized any actual or perceived injury being done to himself or his forum by certain posters. He has done so before, and is better to let him speak than to make any base presumption on his behalf, unless any of you can present some evidence as to his thoughts.
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It's true. Pretty much all of it.
Otaku in Japan are the sweaty, creepy guys who walk around aimlessly galking at anime girl action figures, drooling over magazines in comic shops, and spending all of thier money on porn and related paraphenelia.
Otaku is often misunderstood in American culture. And being called an Otaku in Japan is being listed with a stigma, something that is BAD. Because people in Japan see an otaku, and they think "Lazy, Pervert, Creepy" they don't like "Cool, Anime, r0x0rz"
I have lots of Japanese friends who can back me up on this.
Just understand that when HMD said "A loser moron" or whatever he said, he was using an example of the equivelant of being called an Otaku in Japan. He wasn't insulting you. Technically, calling you an Otaku would be an insult.
Nevermind, why do I even try.
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Words mean things, sure, but they're useless if you don't know what the meaning is or how to use it. Japanese people who write english stuff on t-shirts and crap don't know what the fuck it means. That's why we get stuff like "I am top of cool shape on world" and why we get anime kids spouting off japanese phrases that have no bearing on whatever they're doing. It's why people get mad about it.
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Just because I'm part Otaku, doesn't exactly mean I'm lazy, creepy, etc. I've seen dozens of lazy, perverted creepy guys in my time, and guess what? They aren't even Otakus! Compared to THOSE people, Otaku is considered a complement.
I also write original stories too based on the knowledge of the Otaku world, and although it had various suggestive themes in there, it is sometimes backed up by humor, and the like. Just to show the love I have for various stories, and would like to one day create a whole franchise on said creations.
Here's a breakdown of creating something an Otaku enjoys, in my opinion.
1. Watch said inspirations.
2. Study said inspirations.
3. Create something based on said inspirations.
4. Work for a company that makes animes, or cartoons.
5. Hopefully get recognition for said works.
Or if you feel like it, make something completely original! I'm sure you can get a huge fanbase on that.
That's my two cents. Maybe if possible, I'll create a few things rather than just watch anime all day.
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Please do not misuse the word Otaku. As as far as I know, it can be used for more than just anime.
Now that the linguistics are out of the way, I fail to see how this hatred of the anime fandom is the product of a rational mind rather than some manner of primordial ape-hate. If the Japanese are offended by the co-opting of the superficilaities of their culture, that is legitamate, but being offended on someone's behalf is something that has consistently boggled my mind, in any context.
(I would also like to see if the Japanese make a big deal of the American Nihongophile on their forums. If the Japanese can't be bothered to make a ruckus, I fail to see any reason that we should.)
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i'm starting to see what ytf was talking about. we bakunyu's really arent welcome here. its gotten to the point where we are actually being publicly bashed for our tastes in entertainment. i personnaly feel that is wrong. furthermore i see no attempt to curb or otherwise malign this activity by any of the moderators. in fact, it would almost seem that the moderators take part in the bashing from time to time, which is also wrong. i can understand a joke, i can understand sarcasm, but this has long exceeded the limits of a tasteful joke.
i highly suggest that all of us baka's vacate this site post haste. i can only forsee this problem getting worse, and i certainly dont want that. i dont know if it stemmes from a general lack of respect, that we are treat6ed like second-class citizens here. or if it is simply caused by the musings of a troupe of lesser minded human beings. but i for one will no longer tolerate being verbally abused or generalized because of what i watch on tv. i'm honestly not expecting anyone to change their opinion of us simply by me posting this little tyraid of mine. what i am expecting is the all this senseless hatemongering stop. you dont make friends by throwing stones.
many of us come here to escape from a bad day or the pangs of boredom, we should not have to put up with insults here too.
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The word otaku is an insult in Japan. If I called you a loser retard, I'd be accomplishing the same goal as just calling you otaku.
"Nigger" was a derisive term once, too, but it got re-appropriated- and it seems the word "Geek" is being reclaimed by western geekdom- so I'm not seeing your point.
I also can't stand how anime fans will use random Japanese words or phrases in the middle of english sentences.
I know. Until we start to do it with other languages, it will always be a terrible faux pas.
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Nice one, Heirophant.
As for the YTF situation, I looked on his website, and he mentions going to another website where our Bakaness can live without the fear of the harshness of the real world.
I don't know where yet, but once he finds it, we'll be there.
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...You guys act like we're going to gas you and put you concentration camps.
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Without harshness of the real world?
Holy shit. Just, wow.
Dear Lord.
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also: last time I make a thread that Hyperguy half-assedly suggests.
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YOU THOUGHT, YOU THOUGHT, YOU THOUGHT! YOU THOUGHT EIGHT THINGS TODAY! THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! DON'T MAKE A FUCKING MANIAC OUT OF ME! THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! THAT'S JUST THE FUCKING WAY IT IS! THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! IT'S JUST LIKE FOOTBALL, BASEBALL, ANYTHING ELSE, THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN ME MOVE ON THAT STAGE, I SLICE LIKE A FUCKING HAMMER!
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It's true. Reality is a very harsh mistress, and people come here to escape the bad parts of reality. Of course, there are a few exceptions that good can outweigh the bad.
YOU THOUGHT, YOU THOUGHT, YOU THOUGHT! YOU THOUGHT EIGHT THINGS TODAY! THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! DON'T MAKE A FUCKING MANIAC OUT OF ME! THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! THAT'S JUST THE FUCKING WAY IT IS! THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! IT'S JUST LIKE FOOTBALL, BASEBALL, ANYTHING ELSE, THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! YOU GUYS HAVE SEEN ME MOVE ON THAT STAGE, I SLICE LIKE A FUCKING HAMMER!
Shirts? Oy vey. I think we were one post too late.
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(http://www.cross-changer.net/images/pm.jpg)
ARE YOU PEOPLE GONE YET?
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whatever makes you feel like a man hmd. go ahead and post a private message from me to you.
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Posting yaoi makes me feel like a man. Or I can post some Dashboard Confessionals songs, since you guys are some of the most Emo motherfuckers I've ever seen.
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congratulations hmd, you have single handedly turned this place into 4chan. /g/ go fuck yourself with an iron stick.
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I've never actually been to 4chan before. Aren't those the same people who are responsible for everything bad that happened in YTF's life?
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Oh for the love of... this place is not NEARLY as bad as 4chan. Remember when those guys found YTF's anti-4chan rant and spammed the hell out of us with scat porn and other junk? Until HMD and Khris start doing that, it's not as bad as 4chan and never will be as bad as 4chan.
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my question is: why is no one doing anything about his shit? if i were to pull these kind of stunts i'd be banned in half a heartbeat.
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Because the only reason it's a problem is because you're all taking him far too seriously? The entire Cross Changer forum is dudes like him throwing bullshit around. There's no reason to get so bent out of shape over some asshole on the internet.
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We try not to. Yet, some of these people do the same thing to us.
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We try not to. Yet, some of these people do the same thing to us.
...*phone rings*
Hello mr LordRyunson? This is THE POINT, I believe you missed me earlier today.
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man, i just think everyone needs to shut the fuck up about all this bullshit and get back to what this forum is all about - having people discuss various matters about anime, video games, and the like, and ENJOY DOING IT.
i also think it'd help if everyone were more stoic to direct comments, like me - it seems like i'm one of the only few people who hasn't gotten their feathers severely ruffled yet by someone else's commentary. my fellow bakas, people are going to insult you all throughout your life. you can either take it with or without causing a conflict (preferably WITHOUT), or run away crying cause you got your feelings hurt.
grow up, guys, geez... i don't want to leave this forum, but i might have to if i constantly have to hear a bunch of immature whiney-hineys bitching at each other over stupid shit.
...you guys DO want this forum to be enjoyable, right?? then let's start respecting one another. there doesn't seem to be any tension in many of the other threads, unless i missed something... why can't we just do the same everywhere else?? come on, guys...
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Tetsaru sees the issue at hand.
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Who ordered the internet dramas?
I like how the misuse of the word otaku suddenly became a big argument about how we're singling out the bakunnyu community. Personally, I don't think the the original community are the ones with the problem, as we don't seem to be the ones fostering this "us" vs "them" mentality.
In other news, I just found out I had a PM from importgamer from July 9th... who knew?
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I like to think that I've kept a level head. There's been some interesting points made when people weren't just walking out.
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DualSoul is correct. There is no Us vs Them going on here. However, there is a Me vs Them going on here. The Me being, well, me, and them, contrary to popular belief, are not the bakunyuus. Rather, the Them are some of this forum's more annoying members. The kind that fly off the handle whenever Bill makes a dirty joke or whenever Khris and/or myself change avatars; and not even offensive ones at that. This is some serious bullshit to the max. Extreme bullshit, if you will.
I'll say right now that I have no problem with a lot of bakunyuus. I can say, at least off the top of my head, that I have never had a problem with you, lumberjack33 (yes, you've kept yourself well composed), or with elevator_kart (I don't know if you consider yourselves bakunyuus, I'm just lumping you more recent guys in there). Kart's contributions to the emulation thread are what make great message boards.
I'm not the only one who feels this way; I'm just the only one who's saying anything about it. And, for obvious reasons, I'm not going to be giving out names. I'm sworn to secrecy. I'm the lighting rod of dickness, so to speak.
Really, I'm just tired of feeling like I'm walking on eggshells when I post. I didn't want a throng of people leaving 4eva because I'm just being myself (myself being the HMD you see at Cross Changer, not the one you've seen the last few days).
So, if you are or are going to be offended by me telling you to knock off the bullshit (posting long, idiotic anti-current topic rants in a thread designed for actual conversation, peppering your posts with your personal problems, or acting like the entire world is against you because you wrote/did something that absolutely sucked), leave now, because I'm not going anywhere. I was here before you guys, and I shouldn't feel pressured to leave. And I was told, by Hyperguy himself, to post exactly as I do at CC. I am doing just that. So tough noogies.
P.S: THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! THAT'S JUST THE FUCKING WAY IT IS!
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Oh, and STOP REPORTING MY POSTS! The admins/mods find that annoying.
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man, i just think everyone needs to shut the fuck up about all this bullshit and get back to what this forum is all about - having people discuss various matters about anime, video games, and the like, and ENJOY DOING IT.
i also think it'd help if everyone were more stoic to direct comments, like me - it seems like i'm one of the only few people who hasn't gotten their feathers severely ruffled yet by someone else's commentary. my fellow bakas, people are going to insult you all throughout your life. you can either take it with or without causing a conflict (preferably WITHOUT), or run away crying cause you got your feelings hurt.
grow up, guys, geez... i don't want to leave this forum, but i might have to if i constantly have to hear a bunch of immature whiney-hineys bitching at each other over stupid shit.
...you guys DO want this forum to be enjoyable, right?? then let's start respecting one another. there doesn't seem to be any tension in many of the other threads, unless i missed something... why can't we just do the same everywhere else?? come on, guys...
Tetsaru sees the issue at hand.
Who ordered the internet dramas?
I like how the misuse of the word otaku suddenly became a big argument about how we're singling out the bakunnyu community. Personally, I don't think the the original community are the ones with the problem, as we don't seem to be the ones fostering this "us" vs "them" mentality.
In other news, I just found out I had a PM from importgamer from July 9th... who knew?
Amen to that, brothers.
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DualSoul is correct. There is no Us vs Them going on here. However, there is a Me vs Them going on here. The Me being, well, me, and them, contrary to popular belief, are not the bakunyuus. Rather, the Them are some of this forum's more annoying members. The kind that fly off the handle whenever Bill makes a dirty joke or whenever Khris and/or myself change avatars; and not even offensive ones at that. This is some serious bullshit to the max. Extreme bullshit, if you will.
I'll say right now that I have no problem with a lot of bakunyuus. I can say, at least off the top of my head, that I have never had a problem with you, lumberjack33 (yes, you've kept yourself well composed), or with elevator_kart (I don't know if you consider yourselves bakunyuus, I'm just lumping you more recent guys in there). Kart's contributions to the emulation thread are what make great message boards.
I'm not the only one who feels this way; I'm just the only one who's saying anything about it. And, for obvious reasons, I'm not going to be giving out names. I'm sworn to secrecy. I'm the lighting rod of dickness, so to speak.
Really, I'm just tired of feeling like I'm walking on eggshells when I post. I didn't want a throng of people leaving 4eva because I'm just being myself (myself being the HMD you see at Cross Changer, not the one you've seen the last few days).
So, if you are or are going to be offended by me telling you to knock off the bullshit (posting long, idiotic anti-current topic rants in a thread designed for actual conversation, peppering your posts with your personal problems, or acting like the entire world is against you because you wrote/did something that absolutely sucked), leave now, because I'm not going anywhere. I was here before you guys, and I shouldn't feel pressured to leave. And I was told, by Hyperguy himself, to post exactly as I do at CC. I am doing just that. So tough noogies.
P.S: THE GUYS GET SHIRTS! THAT'S JUST THE FUCKING WAY IT IS!
cool by me, HMD. staying true to one's self is extremely important. i just think there needs to be a lot less bitching and a lot more thread discussion around here, that's all. as i've implied earlier, people shouldn't get so damn upset all the time just because of opposing views. forums like this are MEANT for the discussion of different views of a topic.
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What the hell was with that whole "The Guys Get Shirts" thing before, anyway? To me, all it is consists of Retardglish.